Yesterday, I played in a 2500pt "hobby" tournament. Sadly, the hobby aspect of it was missed by quite a few. There were several there that brought their normal tournament lists with stuff added. Yep, that's a nice change. It was just another heavy tournament in disguise. What kind of "hobby" tournament discards the appearance scores that are already in place for the "heavy" tournament.Maybe I'm confused here but, how does that add to the "hobby" aspect of the game? It was just an exercise in clubbing baby seals and nerfed lists. To be honest it was not much fun.
My first game WAS fun, we had a challenging fun game that came down to me losing by 1 objective due to a re rolled moral check. You can't ask for better than that. My second game my opponent shot the bejeezus out of me as I ran across the board on difficult terrain. The whole board was difficult terrain. I was playing a foot/cavalry SW list and he was playing Las/Plas spam w/ Calgar. He shot me up for 4 turns. I finally reached his lines with a much diminished army and he conceded after one round of combat....I got full points but didn't get a full game. The last game was an exercise in rolling dice and arguing. I'm not sure how it was scored because I packed up and left during the final argument. Again, not the way I wanted to spend my day.
Later, I met some of the guys at the chicken store for a meal and we discussed the tournament AKA had a bitch and beer session. We all agreed a better tournament could be ran but differed on opinions on how to enforce the rules on the "Hobby" crowd. I favored just turning them away/giving their opponent full points if their lists were abusive. The other more popular way was special missions that hurt certain builds. The problem with that is that system can be "gamed". Is hobby dead?...Maybe.
Go Roll Some Dice
CRP
6 comments:
Well John, I'd say that hobby is definitely not dead... but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with playing the game. We've spent years and years debating how it can be done to enforce the fun on people. I've come to the conclusion that its just not possible. Someone will always try and break the system, always push the boundaries. Even with a system like the Narrative track at bolscon which exists solely for hobby aspects because there is no prize for winning or anything... but there were still some that tried to break the system...
Waiving the no painting requirement was probably an attempt to allow players to bring unpainted models that were gathering dust since they weren't competitive. Guess that didn't work.
I believe Jay has hit on two of the main reasons why hobby is dead.
1) GW - even though it talks hobby - encourages competitive play through its tournament format, newest codex setup (make up your chapters and Legions and craftworlds and such so they're as mean as possible), and - above all - prize support. Large prizes tempt people into hard play.
2) People suck. Someone will try to break the game. The rest of us can either give up or try to catch up.
I'm glad I skipped this and went to Wonko's instead. Of course, one BA and three Abby lists showed up there. And yes, one of the three was mine, which I brought "just in case."
Waiving the no painting requirement was probably an attempt to allow players to bring unpainted models that were gathering dust since they weren't competitive. Guess that didn't work.
I believe Jay has hit on two of the main reasons why hobby is dead.
1) GW - even though it talks hobby - encourages competitive play through its tournament format, newest codex setup (make up your chapters and Legions and craftworlds and such so they're as mean as possible), and - above all - prize support. Large prizes tempt people into hard play.
2) People suck. Someone will try to break the game. The rest of us can either give up or try to catch up.
I'm glad I skipped this and went to Wonko's instead. Of course, one BA and three Abby lists showed up there. And yes, one of the three was mine, which I brought "just in case."
@BRP: I think you are right about people always trying to "game" the system. However, there are ways to limit the d-bags. But, most are not prepared to do it. They worry about pissing the d-bags off, instead. When there are real consequences, there is real change.
@Frank: So, Wonko's is starting to see the signs of the competitive bug? It always happens, eventually.
Hey CRP, Hobby is never dead when it comes to your own personal friends group, you can always limit what hits the table with them.
I think to force people to hobby a bit more in a tourney scene the best rule that can be put into play currently is to stop spam units:
Say at 1500-2000pts if you limit each choice to 3* max of each troop type, 1* heavy support, 1* fast attack 1* elites and 3* any transport and perhaps 1* LR's for just BA's as they aren't a heavy support like for everyone else! Battlewagon's Heavy support should over-ride their dedicated transport for nobs. There's probably more exceptions I've not thought of!
You could also potentially ban named characters, particularly as some newer codexes do seem to have upped their importance and their making certain units troops might undermine the above 3*troop type limit.
That means you can't razor spam with 3*long fangs, can't rhino/predator spam with BA's and can't have more melta vets than you can shake a stick at.
Any system is open to abuse but this hopefully forces more thought into different option use. I think its just nice to see more unit types on the table and is harder to build an army that works well as a whole without spamming as then if you lose that unit potentially nothing else in your army can replicate its role.
I think allowing unpainted models is also a good idea as it lets people who play to slowly paint bit by bit still enter with a full army.
Some people are always going to play to win at a tourney event, especially where theres a prize for grabs. Limiting just Heavy support just leads to more troop spam.
One day I'll learn to write a short post, maybe tomorrow eh?
We are working with the store on some ways that can limit future abuses. Hopefully, the next event will be less drama filled. Thanks for the input, Crosser!
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